Saturday, November 3, 2007

Islamophobic vs. Realityphilic

3 Top Republican Candidates Take a Hard Line on the Interrogation of Detainees by Marc Santora



Read the Article at NYTimes.com



"While the three candidates (Mr. Giuliani, Mr. Thompson, and Mr. Romney) all condemn torture, they have been purposefully vague about what constitutes cruel and inhumane treatment."

When Santora writes, "they have been purposefully vague," he immediately assumes an ulterior motive from the Republican candidates, a judgment clearly contradicting fact-based reporting. He leaves no room for the reader to decide himself/herself whether the (Republican) politicians' stances have been vague, or if their responses were strategically formulated. Later in his article he reports, "Mr. Thompson has argued that there are circumstances where 'you have to do what is necessary to get the information that you need,'” words that appear straightforward to me. Through his own individual analysis , Santora goads the less vigilant readers to the confines of his own opinions.

Mr. Giuliani often frames the threat of terrorism in graphically personal terms, telling crowds that Islamic extremists 'hate you' and want to come to the United States and 'kill you.'In that vein, he has been perhaps the most forceful in suggesting that the president must be able to take extraordinary steps to combat terrorist threats."

I don't know whether it's the odd use of quotation marks, or his use of the subjective adjective "graphically" (which in this case, connotes striking, shocking terms), but I felt like this sentence echoes a sentiment expressed later in the article that accuses Republicans of "pandering to peoples’ fears." However, is he pandering to fears or discussing reality? Read the quote below to decide.

"To kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it." (emphasis mine) Osama bin Laden

In Fatwa entitled Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders World Islamic Front Statement, February 28, 1998.

disclaimer: I am NOT Islamophobic. I AM reality-philic. Obviously not all Muslims share these viewpoints expressed; I'm specifically addressing Muslims who associate their relationship to the United States with the verse in the Quran [Sura 2:191] "And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith." I'm also addressing those who are depicted below.



"Their positions have come under fire from leading Democrats who say they unconditionally oppose torture, want Guantánamo closed and oppose rendition."

I would just like to point out that extraordinary rendition was implemented by the CIA during the Clinton administration (when a certain leading Democrat was living in the White House).


Critics, however, not only condemn the conditions at Guantánamo but also find it unacceptable that the majority of detainees have been in legal limbo for more than five years, with only a handful facing formal charges.

Mr. Thompson was dismissive of such concerns when asked for his opinion at a recent campaign stop in Tampa, Fla. “I think that Guantánamo Bay is necessary,” he said. “Those who have criticized Guantánamo Bay do not come with any alternative.”


I appreciate Santora's attempt to give equal inches to the supports of Guantánamo Bay's continuance, but I object to the paragraphs' disparate content. In the first paragraph, Santora effectively outlines the main reasons for opposition toward the detention facility. It's succinct, logical, and addresses legitimate issues. The other paragraph, however, does not discuss any reason for the support of its perpetuation; he merely states that supporters believe it is "necessary." Since he provides only partial information that would allow the reader to formulate an opinion, I figured you might like to see the other side here. A Defense Department official stated that, "The detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, remains a valuable asset in the war on terror as a place to hold enemy combatants and a source of useful intelligence to prevent future terrorist attacks." You decide.

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

liberal writers are dismissive of those who believe the words of OBL,
Zawahiri, Ahmedinijad, Hamas and Hizbollah, etc.
They also think Guantanamo, surveillance, and interrogation are more evil than the activities of those who are detained and watched.
This week the 2004 Madrid bombers were convicted, but the masterminds were not because of courtroom evidentiary standards. Meanwhile, this spring Zawahiri threatened Spain with further attacks by al-Qaeda linked groups(despite Spain's pullout of Iraq in April 2004).
I have not seen the liberal spin on this...
I wonder

Vanessa S. said...

Good point, americangirl. I also find it interesting that liberals are the supposed champions of human rights; yet where are they in condemning the opression of women in countries dominated by Islamic "extremists"?

Although, how "extreme" are they really if these are some of the verses of the Quran (trans. by Yusufali) ?:

[4:11] Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females(...)

[4:15] If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

[4:34] Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly)(...)

Abdo said...

I would say you forgot to post this verse Vanessa:

[Yusufali 4:16] If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

Islam condemns homosexuality in other verses but it seems to me that even male homosexuals have more rights than women: the right to exist if they repent.

Moreover, women homosexuality's punishment would be death (according to 4:15, they both commit lewdness and their punishment should be death). However if men repent (which is a subjective judgment and an unmeasurable one)
they can escape punishment.

Is the mercy of God exclusive to men?

Also, if [26:165-6] says that if men have lust for other men, they are transgressing all limits, why is the punishment of a woman who commits lewdness more severe than that of a man who commits something that's transgressing all limits?

Vanessa S. said...

Well, zxy, you wrote some interesting comments, but you forgot one very important thing: there are no homosexuals in Iran! So at least in that country, your points are moot ;-)

Harrison said...

Excellent job, Vanessa.
One more addition you may want to include is the most infamous of all Qur'anic verses - The Verse of the Sword. Verse of the Sword: "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them: seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." (9:5)
The Qur'an is not in chronological order, but is arranged more or less according to the length of the Surah (chapters). What most people do not understand, including most Muslims, is the idea of abrogation in the Qur'an. The most peaceful verses of the Qur'an came in the early days of Mohammad's reign where he was not powerful enough to impose his religion through force as he was in his latter years. Therefore, this is why we find peaceful Surah in the Qur'an as well. Unfortunately, the earlier Surah of the Qur'an most quoted by Muslims and their apologists were abrogated by the latter verses of the Qur'an that call for jihad and violence and oppression (this comes form the Hadith which are commentaries on the life of Mohammad and from Islamic jurisprudence through the centuries and is the belief of every respected Islamic scholar in the Arab world). Surah 9, including the verse of the sword, is believed to be of the most recent Quranic scripture, therefore it abrogates the earlier, more peaceful demands of Allah to Muslims through his prophet Mohammad through the Qur'an. Additionally, the Qur'an is considered to be the EXACT words of God, so, therefore, by interpreting the verse of the sword and other not so pleasant verses of the Qur'an, one is committing an act of heresy. This puts moderate Muslims in a dangerous position, for they could choose to disregard this and risk going to hell, or they can obey the "true Islam" as the modern Salafist movement has urged them to and take the words of Allah literally. Unfortunately, the Salafists, who are the Islamo-fascists we read about everyday, have the "word of God" as their evidence for "true Islam".
Additionally, Surah 4:34 which you quote which calls for men to "beat lightly" their disobedient wives is not entirely correct. The word "lightly" is not in the Arabic of the Qur'an, but has been added by a modern translator Ali. The most respected translation is by Shakir and states: "and beat them." Robert Spencer talks about this in a great deal in an editorial to my school paper last week after it was charged in an article by a Muslim student at my school that there is nothing in the Qur'an that calls for wife-beating. Read it here:http://thedartmouth.com/2007/10/31/opinion/spencer/
Anyway, great job and I love this stuff so let me know if I can ever help.
Keep it up!

Abdo said...

You're right, Harrison. Shakir's translation of this verse is more accurate. The verse does not, in any way, limit the intensity of the beating. However, it suggests that they beat them until they obey.

For anyone who's interested in multiple translations of the Quran, including Yusufali's and Shakir's, here's a link:

http://www.al-islam.org/quran/

Harrison said...

xzy: Thanks for the link.
Also,if anyone is interested in this sort of thing, I would recommend any of Robert Spencer's books on Islam and his website www.jihadwatch.org . I had the pleasure of meeting with him last week and he is truly inspirational.
Harrison

Anonymous said...

I can't quote the Qu'ran, but if they want to modify it ("beat(lightly") that suits me! How about THIS modification: THOU SHALT NOT KILL!! LOVE your neighbor as yourself!!
I'm waiting for good-hearted, brave Muslims to stand up and denounce OBL, HAMAS, etc., but where are they?

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